The Virtual CMO

How Brand Advocates are Created by Successful Companies Worldwide with Andrew Deutsch

November 02, 2020 Eric Dickmann, Andrew Deutsch Season 3 Episode 5
The Virtual CMO
How Brand Advocates are Created by Successful Companies Worldwide with Andrew Deutsch
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, host Eric Dickmann interviews Andrew Deutsch.  Andrew is a multilingual global strategic marketing and sales consultant who has successfully driven business growth in more than 100 countries. 

His company Fangled Technologies is a strategic marketing consultancy with services including Fractional CMO leadership, in-depth research beyond the financials for M&A, in addition to total branding and go-to-market strategy creation.

 
Eric Dickmann can be found on Twitter @EDickmann and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/edickmann and my website https://ericdickmann.com

Andrew Deutsch can be found online at https://fangledtech.com on Twitter @Fangled_Int, and Facebook @FangledInternational

Episode Summary: The episode summary can be found at https://fiveechelon.com/brand-advocates-created-successful-companies-s3e5/

If you'd like to contact us with feedback or guest inquiries, please visit:
https://fiveechelon.com/podcast

For more information about Virtual CMO strategic marketing consulting services, visit The Five Echelon Group at https://fiveechelon.com
 
Episode #36

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Marketing Automation with HubSpot
Try HubSpot’s all-in-one marketing software to simplify campaign management and drive new leads.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Eric Dickmann:

andrew welcome to the virtual CMO podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Andrew Deutsch:

Hey, glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Eric Dickmann:

You know, it's funny, that's called the virtual CMO podcasts, but we actually have two virtual CMOs here today, which is great. virtual CMO, fractional CMO. CMO. demand, whatever you want to call us. It's great to have some company on the show.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah, I was going to rename it. CMOs are us, but someone told me that was taken.

Eric Dickmann:

Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. So I would love to hear, as we start out, just to give the audience a little bit of a background on yourself and how you came to start up a fangled tech, your consulting company.

Andrew Deutsch:

All right. originally the. Do age group. And I began my work years ago in central Florida, and then 10 years working in growing the business in the South of Brazil. And when I came back to the States, A troll had taken my name and registered it. then why did it hurt me for it? So at that same time I had gone to work for, one of my clients is as part of their company for a period of time. And decided when I came out, rather than fight with the troll and go through all the legal, I needed to come up with a clever name that really said who we were and, you know, got the brand recognition that we would want to going forward. So it was a conversation with some of the folks that we're working with and you know, what kind of a company are you. we're not new fangled cause we really do. What's great. We're not old fangled because we're moderate and we deal with it. So we're right in the moment we're fangled. And. Became Fangled tech.

Eric Dickmann:

We were talking just before the broadcast started about the importance of a brand story and the ability for a brand to be recognized. And I've had a few guests on the show that, they'll wear a certain color. I had a nice lady on the show and she wore a pink scarf every time that she was doing a public appearance and another one at word green dress and a guy that wore a purple shirt or a tie. And it's nice to have something about your brand that's recognizable so that when people see you, they, equate your brand with you.

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. And the thing is, everyone says your brand needs to be memorable, but memorable for the right things. You know, you don't want to be remembered for. The kinds of things that destroy brands you want to be remembered for the great work that you do. And the problems that you solve for your clients.

Eric Dickmann:

That's so true. And I really want to get into that a little bit more with you because, we're both seasoned veterans. We've been around the game for a long time and in marketing, there's quite a breadth of skill that's out there. There are a lot of companies that tend to hire in young people, right out of school to manage their social media or whatnot. And oftentimes we also see that marketing is a function that is given off to another executive within the organization. A VP of sales and marketing. how do you look at the range of experience that's out there and really what differentiates somebody with experience in marketing with somebody who maybe doesn't have that season skill?

Andrew Deutsch:

it's something that I've been talking about quite a bit lately. The. there's a, an issue across the boards, outside of our field and in the U S and abroad now where folks value someone's confidence far more than their competence. So you get a kid right out of school who studied marketing and has a good understanding of it. But at the end of the day, what they really have as a tool kit. They know about SEO. They know about all of these pieces that are tools. The true seasoned marketing guys are the ones that recognize tools change every year. But the core of marketing is understanding how to build a strategy to really go back and say, who are our customers? What do they look like? What's their persona? What did they want? What are the problems that we can solve for them? Do I have one type two? I various types. And then really understand who they are, where they are, how to reach them and how to truly solve the problems that you now know that they have.

Eric Dickmann:

Just because you use social media in your personal life, doesn't mean you're an expert in social media, right?

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. And it's fascinating to me, like for example, you'll come across somebody who will tell you, I know I'm successful in marketing because I can drive 200,000 people to a website a day. I can get someone 30,000 followers within a week. And you go, okay. But what does that do for you? Are those followers, people who could do business with you? Are you interested in vanity or prosperity? And most of my client work is in that, in the industrial sort of niche market space. So if you were to ask me, would you want 30,000 connections on LinkedIn? I would say, it depends are the 30,000 connections people who I can benefit, or we can do business with me. Or am I going to be trying to look for quality content out there and have to filter through all the garbage? I don't want to see. It has to be target. It has to be strategic in what you do.

Eric Dickmann:

I love that phrase. You use a vanity versus prosperity because yeah, followers are relatively easy, but getting somebody to open up their wallet and actually buy something to spend money on a product or service is an entirely different proposition altogether. And I think many times people don't realize the challenge that you've got there.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. And you know, I've tried at the supermarket to pay for my food with connections and they don't, they won't take it. They won't take my likes, my connections, any of that stuff. They want cash.

Eric Dickmann:

It's so true. Cash is the currency that drives the world, not likes and followers, right?

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Eric Dickmann:

So there's this huge differentiation in skills within the marketplace, but at the same time, we're also seeing this move towards a lot of outsourcing towards more use of freelancers. I think there was a time when you would just go to an agency and they would be a one stop shop for everything. And agencies still have an incredibly important role to play. But now I think your choices are more diverse. you can have a bunch of different people working on your behalf. How do you see the landscape.

Andrew Deutsch:

we are not an agency and I make it clear that we're not, I have nothing against there's some real, like you said, some really good agencies out there, but many times I would say nine out of 10 clients that we take on are people that have been burned by agencies. there's all of these sort of what I call creepers in the fees. They agree, Hey, we're going to put together a print ad. And by the time they're done the project management fees are 10 times what the I'm exaggerating, but much higher than what the actual costs should have been. Or you go to the agency and they tell you, Oh, we've got a person who specializes in your field. And the reality is no one there has ever worked in your industrial sector before understands it. So rather than the way we do where we've got about a hundred different freelance people that we've been using for years, we build a team specific to the strategy and specific to the needs of the customer. With folks that are relevant within that area.

Eric Dickmann:

But I think you also highlight another point is that there was a benefit in the agency model where you turned everything over to them because. They were also an ultimate point of responsibility, right? They were the person that you had a lead at the agency. And you could go to, if you didn't like something or something was wrong. When companies engage with a lot of freelancers. Then there has to be somebody who's coordinating that effort. Otherwise everybody's just off doing their own thing and there's no strategy. There's no continuity in what they're doing. And I think that's another way that roles like you and I play with a virtual CMO, fractional CMO. You still need somebody driving the bus.

Andrew Deutsch:

And that's what we do. But the difference is if in an agency model you've got the person running the agency. Sometimes they have a sales team who goes out that thinks that they know marketing. But they're really about just getting more and more out of it out of the customer. It's almost like an interior decorator situation where you're going to decorate your home. So you talk about a plan and before long, every napkin you buy for your house has a commission for them. Anthe design is more based on what furniture they get the best commission on. Whereas with what we do as a fractional CMO, we're part of the team. It's like having a part time employee with sea level credentials, who's there to build the strategy. So the responsibility is with that person. But the difference is: us fractional or however else you want to call it. We have a pool of people that are already vetted that we know what they're going to charge. We know how they work. We know what the project is. and we're used to working with them on projects specific to that customer. So there's no additional project management fees. Cause that's what we're doing in our monthly fee for the days or the number of hours that we've negotiated for. And when there's additional services and agency, when they outsource, they can double, triple whatever they're being billed. In. In my case, we actually show the invoice of what we're paying and there's a standard markup for us to manage that project. But at the end of the day, we own the project that the freelancers, if a freelancer screws up for us, we're on the hook, not the freelancer they're on the hook with us, but we were responsible to it just as if we were an employee of the company.

Eric Dickmann:

Yeah, I think that's so important. And you know, I really want to get back to this statement that I made earlier because I see it so often and I'm sure you run into it as well. So many companies will come back and say, I already have a VP of sales and marketing. Why do I need to have somebody in a separate role? Just for marketing, isn't marketing, a function of sales.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. Again, at other most common question that's asked and the reality is marketing makes it so that sales can happen. we understand. And we use the data that we get from sales to understand the customer a little bit better and the performance and otherwise, but to truly understand the total scope of the market to generate the leads to look at where is the low lying fruit, all of the analysis that's involved. In where to go to market new regions, being able to hone the messaging to create the materials, even building the CRM systems in conjunction with the sales team. So that the CRM is something that they can use and like to use as opposed to an administrative nonsense thing that drives them nuts.

Eric Dickmann:

And I think that this also dovetails nicely into the conversation just on leads in general, because what I often see is when marketing is wrapped up underneath the sales function, everything is leads, but there's more to leads than just going out and going to the magic, lead bank and just purchasing some leads. There's awareness that drives interest that then begins to build demand. And it's a nurturing process where you have to take these leads and mature them before they can move over. And I think oftentimes when it's a sales function, there's the temptation to skip all that and say, where can I just quickly find some leads there? There's no quick solution.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah, there isn't but there, there's a lot of sales guys that have grown up with that kiss or kill sort of mentality. If I don't get it on the first run, go away. One of the big programs that we've built for many clients is exactly what you just called out a lead nurturing program. So for example, there was a, engagement that I was involved with that was selling a product through dealers and leads were coming into the website, hundreds and hundreds a day. And someone would just by zip code, send it out to the dealer and let it go. the question at hand, and this is where marketing comes in. Is, are the leads being handled? Are they actually contacting these people who said they're interested? Are they getting into the dealership? Are they selling the product? And if they do buy, are they buying theirs or are the leads that you're sending, enhancing your competitor? Who's also on that lot. So we built a lead nurturing program where the leads were first qualified. And a personal touch occurs and then introducing them to that dealer network. And then later. after the engagement, they were supposed to be able to follow up and gather all of that data to better know the performance of their dealers.

Eric Dickmann:

When it comes to that, demand generation and building sort of a real funnel to attract new leads. Do you see in your experience that many companies truly don't have a good handle on what their unique value proposition is, what their true differentiators are. And instead it's price and features.

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. I would say nine out of 10 companies. The first question that we always ask is tell me who your ideal customer is. And nine out of 10 times nobody can tell me. and when the 10th they can. When we dig into it and look at it. It's not who they thought it was. So I'll give you, I'll give you an example. We were involved in the steel drum industry for a number of years, and they were as an industry that this particular company was talking about. The fact that the drones were made of steel, they were tested in house. They had in house authorized government testing for DOD and transportation. They had high quality. All of this was there, their entire pitch, everything they were pitching is table stakes. These are all of the basic requirements just to be in that industry. If you want to sell steel drums. You have to be able to test in house. You have to do all of those things. So we dug in and started to talk to the top customers in the past. Customers. Why do you do business with this company? Number one response. Because Ithey answered the phone. Number two response. Cause when me as the buyer screw up or we get a run on a product, they're the only ones who can turn around and get them to me immediately. Other companies could take a month. Number three. At my salesman's in touch with me all the time and I can reach them anytime I want. Number four was when they screw up and they have a defective product, they own it and fix it within a day or two, not, we have a process. It'll be a month before we get back to you. So the entire reason that people were doing business with them had nothing to do with the quality of the product at all. It was, they met and exceeded all of the standards in the market. they were huge because people liked them and they got the service and resolved that the personal problems that buyers have in that industry. so obviously all of the messaging had to change the very differentiators they thought they had. First of all, it didn't differentiate anything. And second had no meaning to the customer.

Eric Dickmann:

what you've really touched on, there is something that I'm such a firm believer in and it's this. Understanding of pain points. It's understanding how a particular product or service is actually going to solve a problem that is going to address some sort of a pain that the customer's having. Not what it does and all the capabilities that it has. Like you say, a lot of times that just ends up being table stakes. Chances are your competitor's products do very similar things. But how are you uniquely suited to solve a customer's pain points or a problem that maybe your competitor is not? And would you just describe her? A lot of service differentiators had nothing to do with the product.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah, it's it had nothing. I'll give you another example. Years ago, I was tasked with the U S manufacturer of sofas of upholstered goods. They were looking to get into the South American luxury market. And in the U S when you go buy a sofa, a real high end thousands of dollars sofa. They'll show you the inside of the sofa. They show you the Springs and how many directions it was hand tied in Brazil. You would talk about that and the consumer would go, I don't give a crap. literally. That means nothing to me. I want to know if it feels good. When I sit in it, I buy a sofa with my butt was the most common thing that I heard. I want a fancy, beautiful fabric. I want it to look nice. I want it to be comfortable and I want to be able to tell people I imported it. That was what mattered. So all of the collateral that existed in the U S for selling those sofas was useless in Brazil.

Eric Dickmann:

I'm so glad you segwayed into this, because I really do want to leverage your experience working with global brands and talk a little bit about that, because I think that's a challenge as we become an increasingly global economy. businesses want to open up in new markets, but it's not as simple as, translating your content from English to French or the German. there's a lot of culture that's involved in this. And the term I always like to use is cultural translation. Just like you said, the same sofa here versus Brazil, but the way the consumer bought it Was very different. that's just a difference in culture. That's a different dish in buying behavior. So I'd love to hear about your experience and advice that you give businesses as their thinking to expand into new markets.

Andrew Deutsch:

The most common thing we encounter with a company that wants to go global. Is, Oh, we're already exporting so we know what we're doing. You say, okay, where are you selling? And it's always the same pattern countries that speak English first and folks that we met at a trade show who reached out to us. that's the model that we always get. and it's, I won't not to be insulting to another country, but I've been at a trade show where people have come up and said, I am the number one distributor of that product in my entire country. Tell her it's nice to meet the number one guy. You take their business card. They walk away. Next guy comes up by the end of the day, you've met seven number ones. So it, which is mathematically interesting. Cause I, I know people who are into math there has just exploded. There can't be that. but at the end of the day, you really have to understand globally. what are your true competitors in the market? Not just the product that you make, but what your product may be replacing. When I was with, Avery Dennison in the strategic tapes, they were high performance tapes industry. People would say, who you're competing against 3m? You say? Yeah. 3m as a competitor. So with tape, who else do you compete with? You can pay with nails screws. you compete with clamps. You can meet with all of these other things that hold things together. So in the global market, you may think that you've got a solution that works globally, but it culturally isn't a fit similar in South America, we did a viability study. We're under sink waste. Disposal's you know, like InSinkErator and things like that. And, it had no place in the market as far as we could tell, because the reason people have those is because they don't want to clean slop out of the drain. But anyone who had the money. To be able to afford one of these products also had a housekeeper maid cook or otherwise. And they typically didn't care if that person stuck their hand in the drain to clean out the slop. So it became, the only reason to have it is the bragging rights and the more we talked about them and try to figure it out, we looked at what it would take to move the market. And you would have to sell many units to be able to pay the educational part of creating a demand where demand doesn't exist.

Eric Dickmann:

And, I think it even goes beyond that. You'd take a look at, translating content, maybe just on your website or whatnot. Even in other English speaking countries saying things a certain way is going to be a dead giveaway that you are not really a local merchant. You're not somebody that's the established in that country, or even some of the imagery that you may use. It may seem off because it just doesn't fit in with the culture. there's a lot to it.

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. And that's why like a group like ours, we have resources and about a hundred different countries now that we can reach out to. So it, depending from the network of my working overseas for all these years, depending on where we're going, we bring expertise in from those markets. Cause the blind spots, no matter who you are, I've been at this for 30 plus years and I've worked in a hundred and something different countries. I have. Lots and lots of blind spots that have to be taken care of by bringing professionals. People who know more than me into the project.

Eric Dickmann:

how then do you you take all this, that we've talked about, you talk about lead, nurturing, you talk about, having the right kind of messaging, differentiated value propositions, really understanding who your customer is. you package all this stuff up together. Where do you think many companies are making the biggest mistake today?

Andrew Deutsch:

The biggest mistake is not going back to their brand story and understanding who their customer is and what are the problems that you can solve for them. What are the challenges that they have and how can you be their hero? in and the other mistake is at the other end that after you've sold, at the end of the day, what do we do? We want people to know who we are. See our products, buy them, love them and tell everyone and become an advocate for that brand. That's what we want. That's what marketing is about. The sales team is involved in part of that. But most companies stop the follow through. We made the sale next and it's wait a minute. you just lost that resource. That's going to bring you 10 more customers who have 10 friends that want to buy. So what do you do in terms of your business and how do you build a strategy around that so that everyone who does business with you. Becomes an advocate. think about some of the major brands, the apples of the world. They come out with a product nobody's ever had their hand on it, and people are lined up around the corner to buy it because they have an army of advocates for that brand that will believe that whatever they do is going to be fantastic. In the trailer industry, Airstream people all their lives. Oh my God. They have an Airstream. That's the premiere and in a pull trailer. But at the end of the day, if you take one apart, in my opinion, there are no better than the other ones that are out there. But they have such an army. They would have to screw up for a lot of years before their brand got turning, because they spend a lot of their time really building that brand loyalty, that brand advocacy. So the homework upfront has to be done and you gotta follow through all the way past sale. So that those people are still sticking around. and loving what you do.

Eric Dickmann:

And becoming those advocates. That's right. And you know, Apple is a very overused example in marketing just because they do so many things. But they are one of the few companies that I would say as an exception, they can talk about a new button that they've added or a new feature that they've added and people would genuinely get excited about that. because they've done so much work already to establish their value proposition that now people are interested in how little things are enhancing that where I think a lot of other companies, they have not laid that foundation. And so focusing on those kinds of things is a mistake. They have to establish their value proposition first.

Andrew Deutsch:

And if you could build that tribe of advocates, think about when some of these companies come out with a new product it's on the morning news.

Eric Dickmann:

right. all that free publicity.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. And the other end of it, which is more in that creative space. imagine what the day that burger King decided to stick a slice of bacon in there Sunday did to their business, every news show in the world, they're trying to kill us and people lined up for it. And the little Caesar's put how many pounds of bacon on a pizza. And became relevant again, it was a company that was on the downfall disappearing those kinds of stunts, they get you the free media also create buzz and advocates. the bacon industry, people walk around with bacon t-shirts when was bacon, a status symbol? they were clever. think about prunes. Nobody would eat prunes. That's what kept grandpa regular what they do. They created an entire strategy around calling them dried plums and how cool that healthy they were. And now young people alike. Everyone eats dried plums. Nobody would need approval. Hate to take, to say it. It's the same thing. All of those are great examples of how you build a brand. and create advocates for it because you understand why people don't buy it, why they do and what are the benefits?

Eric Dickmann:

I love this whole concept too, of the brand story, because that is so important. And we live in such a visual a time right now, where there are so many great opportunities to create visual content, to support that brand story. And I'd still see so many businesses missing the opportunity. there's a product actually that I use, but I was evaluating it. And it was a product that helped you make videos. And I went to their website and they didn't have any videos. And I thought, this is awfully odd for a company that helps you make videos not to have any videos, because I really wanted to see the product in action. To me, that was just a huge miss.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. how many people don't walk the walk? It's there's an expression in Portuguese that the. Is it usually the barbecue. You cook meat on a metal spit. and they joked that the blacksmith's cooks is coaxes on a wooden spit. That you know, he doesn't have, he doesn't have, he's so busy with what he does that he doesn't even have time to do for himself and show what he does. Yeah. It's amazing to me, how so many companies miss that as they grow their business, high tech companies with websites that look like a word page. It doesn't make any sense.

Eric Dickmann:

too much tax. Do you know? You can tell a story, but you don't want to make it your life story. You've gotta be succinct. You've got to get to the point. You've got to very quickly help people understand what's your, brand differentiators, your value proposition is, you know, and before we wrap things up today, I would also love to get your thoughts on automation tools. I know you mentioned, you know, some marketing automation, CRM, both hugely important. I think in the marketing space. Oh, what do you look at when you're talking to your clients? What kinds of things do you recommend to say these are really must have three organization.

Andrew Deutsch:

Again, I don't have a must have for any, it depends on what their needs are and what the strategy is, but one of the, like in a CRM, for example, when you've got guys that are putting out multiple proposals, There should be automation to remind them the proposals out for followup. There should be automation for; tasks and for activities campaigns, lead generation lead nurturing programs. There's a million different pieces. where I think a lot of companies miss is that they automate in such a generic way that people feel like they're being treated by a robot. many automation programs backfire because people see them as a cost cutter. They see it as a time saver, but no matter what anyone says that personal touch is still an absolute requirement in being able to build brand advocates. you know, it really depends. there's lots of crazy marketing automation programs that I've seen out there that have all the whistles and bells and alienate the customers.

Eric Dickmann:

I think that's true. I would probably take it one step further than you do. I. I'm such a believer in CRM, because I think we've all experienced times. when we call into that call center, they have no idea that we called in a week ago. They have no idea that we have an outstanding service issue. You've gotta be able to know how your customers are interacting with your organization and what people in your organization are doing. And you've got everything from free HubSpot out there too. Very expensive CRM platforms from Salesforce and others. It's an investment, but if you can get people using it, I think it can be a great, aid to your organization in your customer service.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah, we could do an entire other podcast conversation on how to build really positive CRMs at the sales team loves the first one I ever used. This was a long time ago. It was an electronic babysitter that made sure that, we could be watched. And then if we got fired or quit, they had all of our secret sauce. That's what it was to the sales team. it was not a way to make us better as sales folks. And it was designed by a finance guy and an it guy. not interactive. A properly done CRM is like having two or three virtual assistants working for you every day. And a crappy CRM is what wastes your entire Saturday, because you've got to update the darn thing because the boss said, so.

Eric Dickmann:

That's right. And it's all about the data to junk data in junk data out. It's gotta be good data and everybody has to be using it consistently.

Andrew Deutsch:

Yeah. Yup. I've done. I've done multiple implementations over the years and it's really. when it's done right man, it's fantastic. And when it's done wrong, it's a nightmare.

Eric Dickmann:

Andrew this has been so great to be able to talk shop with somebody who does the same thing that I do. And I would love for you to be able to share with the audience or how they can get in touch with you, how they can find fangled tech on the web, in any social media channels that you use as well.

Andrew Deutsch:

Sure. We're a first of all, we're obviously we're on LinkedIn. You can find me by my name on LinkedIn. And our website is fangledtech.com. And also we do, an interesting program. I give about an hour of my time a week, sometimes a little bit more with what I call the pick my brain sessions. So if somebody has a marketing concept and just wants to talk it through to see if there's a fit, they can reach out to us and we can schedule those. And basically it's a 30 minute period of time to talk through what they're doing and see if we're the right fit. Or if we refer them to someone else out there. To help move forward in their brand story. or their streets, their strategy or whatever it is that they need to do to grow their business.

Eric Dickmann:

I think that's important because, as you discussed before, there are people who've got expertise and B2C expertise in B2B expertise like you have in global industries or specific segments of, industries out there. And so it's important to find somebody that's a good match for your business.

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. And there's a big difference in the B2B marketing world, as opposed to the consumer market. What we do is very different in just now in this point in time. Industry and manufacturers in the commercial space are starting to understand that marketing is more than a sell sheet. That brochure and a box of donuts.

Eric Dickmann:

Yeah. Just think of all these businesses that have had to cancel their, their trade show, marketing plans, and that used to be the staple of what they would do to generate some leads. So yeah, things have changed pretty drastically. I will make sure that we put all of that in the show notes, both here on the live stream channels. And, when the podcast is released, this has been a great discussion. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today. And there's been a lot of great information shared here.

Andrew Deutsch:

Absolutely. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks so much for inviting me. This was great.