The Virtual CMO
The Virtual CMO podcast discusses growth marketing strategies for SMBs and how new technologies are improving marketing effectiveness. Hosted by Eric Dickmann, founder of The Five Echelon Group and a fractional CMO, the podcast focuses on building strategic marketing plans and executing successful growth marketing programs. It includes interviews with industry thought leaders who share their experiences and insights. The show highlights new marketing automation platforms, AI-enabled tools, and other cutting-edge technologies that can enhance marketing campaigns.
The Virtual CMO
Fractional CMO Insight on Marketing for Startups with Amanda Rabideau
In episode 116, host Eric Dickmann talks with Amanda Rabideau- Founder and CEO of Arch Collective, a Fractional CMO agency for tech startups. Amanda has over 15 years of experience growing businesses using effective marketing, strategy, and scale practices. Throughout her career, she has worked with large enterprises to improve their business models.
Arch Collective is a Fractional CMO agency that helps tech startups with their marketing strategy and execution. The company believes that talented, freelance marketers are the future of work, as well as a valuable advantage provided by Fractional CMOs allowing post-Series A startups to deploy new capital in the safest, most cost-efficient way.
Aside from Amanda’s devotion to helping businesses grow, she seeks to inspire female business leaders through effective marketing and commercialization.
For more information and access to the resources mentioned in this episode, visit: https://fiveechelon.com/fractional-cmo-marketing-for-startups-s8ep1/
A fractional CMO can help build out a comprehensive marketing strategy and execute targeted campaigns designed to increase awareness and generate demand for your business...without the expense of a full-time hire.
The Five Echelon Group - Fractional CMO and strategic marketing advisory services designed for SMBs looking to grow. Learn more at:
Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast. I'm your host, Eric Dickmann. In this podcast, we have conversations with marketing professionals who share the strategies, tactics, and mindset you can use to improve the effectiveness of your marketing activities and grow your business. Today. I'm excited to have guests. Amanda Rabideau on the program. Amanda Is the Founder, cEO and fractional CMO at the arch collective affirm that handles marketing strategy and execution for tech startups. She believes that operating with talented freelance, marketers is the future of work and a valuable advantage provided by fractional CMOs. Amanda, welcome to the show.
Amanda Rabideau:Thanks for having me Eric.
Eric Dickmann:I love talking about fractional CMO work and people who have moved into this space. It's really where we're pivoting with this show a little bit to focus on how fractional CMOs can be a benefit to many businesses that are out there and to kick off that discussion, I would love it if you could just share a little bit of an expanded background. How did you work inside the corporate world before you decided to go off on your own and become a fractional CMO?
Amanda Rabideau:Sure, happy to share. So I'm one of the few people that started her career at a startup and then continue to work at bigger companies. And then after about five years at CoreLogic, which is the largest provider of data analytics for property, I decided to start looking to go back into the startup world, living in San Francisco, obviously Silicon Valley, you know, the heart and soul of startups in this country, or it was,
Eric Dickmann:Yeah.
Amanda Rabideau:And while I was interviewing for multiple CMO roles at the same time, I sort of had this thought of it's too bad. I can't work for all of these companies at the same time. They're in a similar place, they have very, very similar problems and, you know, I could be really efficient at solving all of these at one time. And once I had that thought and made the comment to my partner, I was sorta like, why don't I just go out and do this? And that was the genesis of Arch Collective, and so I set out and did exactly that. So I now work with post series, A funded B2B tech startup companies to help them grow their business, serving as a fractional CMO.
Eric Dickmann:I think that's really exciting. You know, when you look back at your corporate before doing that, what are some of the companies that you worked for? What kinds corporations did you work for?
Amanda Rabideau:Well, that first startup that I mentioned I was there for over six years before I went and got my MBA at UNC Kenan-Flagler then after that I worked in digital marketing consulting, and so I was working with companies like Microsoft and Dell and New Relics, so some startups too, PayPal was a client of ours. And then from there I went and worked at CoreLogic, which I just mentioned, and I was there for over several years leading innovation and then moving into a marketing role and then left to start Arch Collective. So ISo you know while I spent five years at CoreLogic, I did spent several years consulting with larger too, and much preferred the startup environment and the speed and the pace at which those companies move.
Eric Dickmann:Was there a moment sort of in that early part of your career where you did something marketing wise that really had a significant impact. And it just sort of turned on that light bulb to say- I really see the power of marketing and what marketing can do for a business.
Amanda Rabideau:Oh that's a great question. And I do, I have that moment.
Eric Dickmann:great.
Amanda Rabideau:so the company that I was working for that startup was an orthodontic startup. So we were selling orthodontic technology and I'd been in sales actually for my first few years there, and look to pivot out, and the CEO was basically like, you know, you go figure out what your job is. I'd been number one in sales so I had built up some crediblity. And so I had to kind of figure out what my job was going to be. And you know, I was meeting with some of the clinicians in the lab, which a lot of them were former dental assistants, orthodontic assistants, and dentists from other countries. And you know, as I started talking with them, I learned a little bit about the referral process and how dentists refer patients to orthodontists. And it was in those conversations that I developed a hypothesis that- Wow, it's actually the hygienists that have more say over where the referrals go to orthodontist than the dentists themselves. Why aren't we doing anything to promote this among the dental hygienists? You know, we're talking to dentists to promote them, to refer patients to orthodontists. And so long story short, I ended up putting together this, or, um, excuse me, dental hygienist referral program that we kicked off in four markets across the country. We had you know, I unfortunately don't remember the exact return or the number of the growth percentage, but the numbers were astounding and the company still is using this program or had been up until they were acquired a couple of years ago. so it was a sticky program. And to me like why that really stuck out is that, you know, marketing isn't a science, but it's using a scientific process, some art to improve on your process. And that I had a hypothesis, we went out and tested it, and then we figured out ways to improve on the results using the art part of that whole art and science equation. And so that really got me interested in marketing.
Eric Dickmann:I love that for a couple of reasons. I love the whole testing, a hypothesis. I wish more people would do that in marketing. When you have scale, you can do a lot of AB testing and see what works better, right? But for smaller businesses, sometimes that's tough. And I also love that you focused on who your content is really needs to be focused on, you know, what is your target buyer? In this case, the target person to do that referral, right? I think a lot of people make assumptions there and never really test to see that's true.
Amanda Rabideau:Yeah And piece that I didn't really mention, but I think is so important and it's really the foundation of how I look at marketing is that because I did start off in sales, right there on the front lines with the customers every day. And then, you know, listening those customers, hearing what they're saying, and then incorporating that into how we tell the story is something that I tell all of my clients, I use that on my clients, and I think it's such a crucial part that voice of client and making sure that you tell a story with your audience in mind, you don't need to tell the story you want to tell, you tell the story that they need to hear.
Eric Dickmann:Yes. And that's tough I suppose, especially working in the world of startups, right? You have a lot of passionate founders there, they believe they've got a great product, they have you know the world is waiting for, how do you work with some of those tough clients and get them to focus more on what the audience wants to hear, rather than the story they want to tell?
Amanda Rabideau:I think it starts by looking at the numbers, right? I mean, if ultimately their company is growing on the right trajectory, they're getting all the clients they want, they're meeting their numbers. I think it's a little bit harder to get them to do something different. But usually when I come in, it's you know, the Series A funding is closed, revenue, they've exhausted their network, and they're the low hanging fruit in the industry, and they need to demonstrate that they can repeatedly acquire new customers. And so they may not know exactly what the right message is. And so you know, saying, look, we're going to start by talking to those clients you have and uncovering how they're using it, what's valuable? Like what really thinking about? How do they make their decisions? You know, usually once we've done that process and we've shared that information back, it's an easier sell on getting them to use that in the messaging because they recognize, wow, this isn't the way that we've been talking about it or this may not have been the way we've been thinking about that or we may not even know this is how our product was being used.
Eric Dickmann:That's really interesting. I also am curious about your story. You talked a little bit about what you were doing before you started the Arch Collective. Once decided to start, it sounds like you had a partner. What was that like, was your early business, referrals from previous clients starting to work with some of those because of existing relationships that you had? Was it referrals from within your close network of people who you know, offered a business right away? What was that like, starting out a new business?
Amanda Rabideau:Well, first when I said partner, I was referring to my husband,
Eric Dickmann:okay.
Amanda Rabideau:I don't have a business partner, but good catch. And know, really it's you know, I guess tapping into my previous sales experience, you know, I mentioned I started in sales at the startup where I had to start letting people know that I was out there you know, providing fractional CMO services. And so much like the startups that I work with, I had to drive brand awareness and let people know about what I was doing and the value prop that I offered. And fortunately, because of my experience and especially my background and having worked at CoreLogic, I had a network of people that had left there to go work at startups in the property ecosystem. And so I was able to gain some traction that way, but now it's kind of, I always can't stand this phrase, but eating my own dog food where a lot of the things that we're doing for our clients are the same things that I do to continue to grow my business and acquire new.
Eric Dickmann:Being a guest on a podcast, being one of them, right?
Amanda Rabideau:That's right. Well, some of it it's the basic blocking and tackling, you know? We have to create content, we have to you know promote through different campaigns and you know, drive referral sources, you know, do this, do that, some of the cold outreach, you know, via LinkedIn and other things. So, you know, it's sometimes it's not all rocket science, right? It's a matter of having a plan and then executing on that plan, because you know, the best plans, if they're not executed against them, you know, they're not doing a whole lot of good.
Eric Dickmann:No, that's exactly right. And I think it's very interesting too when I hear about people's stories and how they start out, because starting a business is one thing, but it doesn't necessarily tell you how it's going to go. 1, 2, 5, 10 years into the process, right? Because some of those early referrals or network connections, they dry up and then you have to have that lead generation machine in place. Have you found that true with your business too, that it looks a little different today than it did when you first started out?
Amanda Rabideau:Well, well certainly, right?
Eric Dickmann:Yeah.
Amanda Rabideau:I mean the more, I mean, hopefully know, I'm taking what I've learned and improving on the business over time. Like again, a lot of my clients need to do, but yes, certainly what I was doing on November of 2019 is different than what I'm doing today. You know, with all that time and experience comes the refinement of my messaging or refinement of my offering. And an expansion too as well, cause I've recognized where there is additional challenges amongst my target audience. And so being able to provide to help them, you know, with those challenges that I recognize or see your gaps in the marketplace. And I think that's what we're all doing is as business owners is trying to fill a gap.
Eric Dickmann:You mentioned target audience, and I think that's a really discussion. We often clients niche down, you can't go after broad, a swath of the marketplace. It's just too expensive. But as a small independent business challenge typically don't have the scale, right? We don't have the volume of leads coming in really on a scientific basis, say where the majority of our leads from. So you have to make choices, you have you want to go. Obviously, you had some tech and startups. And so that was proposition going in? was going to be the audience that I focused on from day one?
Amanda Rabideau:I absolutely followed my advice on this one because I talked to startup founders about niching down all the time for all the reasons you just listed. And I guess that's the advantage of talking to CMO,
Eric Dickmann:Right, exactly.
Amanda Rabideau:And so I'm extremely targeted in my audience and who I reach out to. And it's because I've seen the, the upside of doing that, and I've also seen the downside of doing that, where it can get confusing to the marketplace. And you know, if you're not very clear about who you're going after, in fact, I have a phrase that I call the FOMO of revenue when I'm talking about it with founders. And I, I totally get it. You, you need that revenue coming in. If you've got employees, you've got salaries to pay, you've got, you know, other bills, invoices, all of that, but you're doing yourself a disservice if you try and go too broad, especially at the beginning. And so you know, I just decided to follow the advice I give and so far it's worked out. So you know, I guess I've got another proof point that niching down is effective.
Eric Dickmann:No, that's great, that's encouraging. I think to all the people that are out there that are trying to figure out if they should or not. When you could pitch your services to various companies, various startups, does the concept of a fractional CMO resonate with people? Do you have to explain what that is? It's a relatively new term, right? I think it started out in the CFO's office and then it's gradually spreading through the C-suite. But as I often say on this show, Unless you're a Fortune 500 company, chances are, you don't even have a CMO? right. CMO be kind of a Fortune 500 title. But it's a concept, right? It's somebody who's working part-time for your business on behalf of your business for marketing or for finance or for operations or whatever the fractional title might be. How have you found the general acceptance of it or understanding of it?
Amanda Rabideau:Well, it's certainly the acceptance and the understanding of it has grown over these last few years. And I think completely nailed it, Eric. It started off as really a lot of fractional CFOs. And so people were familiar with that concept. And in fact, when I started off doing this, I met with a few VCs and they even said, they're like- Oh, I'm familiar with the Fractional CFO, but not ever a CMO, kind of wanted to wait and see, like, how does this work? I haven't done that with any of my portfolio companies yet. And I know, frankly, it was actually a client of mine, Lucy Stribley from Flyreel. And she had said to me, she's like, I think what you're doing is it's called a Fractional CMO. And cause I think I was still using interim COO. And so she introduced me to that, you know, this is beginning of my time working at, um, Starting Arch Collective, but it was something I had to educate myself about and it's something that a lot of people outside of tech startups aren't still familiar with. You know, I kind of call it the, you know, ask my dad added if he understands, you know, maybe it's a bit complicated. And a lot of my family hadn't heard that term or even some friends of mine, but in the startup world, I think it's beginning to be more commonplace and where a lot of the questions are, how does this work? Like what happens when you leave? You know, what really are you going to get done? And then of course what's different about a Fractional CMO and me bringing in an agency? And so those are some of the questions that I still get about bringing on a fractional executive.
Eric Dickmann:Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to the podcast. But first, are you ready to grow, scale, and take your marketing to the next level? If so, The Five Echelon Group's Virtual CMO consulting service may be a great fit for you. We can help build a strategic marketing plan for your business and manage its execution, step-by-step. We'll focus on areas like how to attract more leads. How to create compelling messaging that resonates with your ideal customers. How to strategically package and position your products and services. How to increase lead conversion, improve your margins, and scale your business. To find out more about our consulting offerings and schedule a consultation, go to fiveechelon.com and click on Services. Now back to the podcast. You know, when somebody is looking for somebody to come in and fill a role like this generally they don't know who you are, right? So there's always that element of trust building that has to happen in order for an engagement to start. Do you find that with many clients, they like to start with a smaller, very, uh, purposeful engagement? some sort of an audit or some sort of a project that they have, and then that gradually expands out to a full fractional CMO engagement, or do you find a lot of your clients, that's what they want, they know that that's what they need, they need somebody to come in and build a strategy, and that's what they bring you in for?
Amanda Rabideau:It's been a little bit of both frankly. And so you I have a lot of clients that are like, I know I need a CMO, whether it's they can't afford it or like a full-time CMO or they have something more specific in mind. I do have those that they're like, this is what I need. And part of my process is to make sure that this is what they need as well, because it doesn't benefit either parties. If they don't need a fractional CMO, I go in there, we're not aligned what they need and what needs to be accomplished. Um, I do work with some earlier stage companies and they may say, oh I found you I'm interested in you as a fractional CMO. And I frankly just tell them, I don't think you need me right now. Like when you're really early stage, you need to just, it's a little bit of throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks and building things up and building up your client base and making and mistakes as well as getting things right. And so your money is going into your product. It's going into your engineering team probably. And so having an executive and marketing, like I probably wouldn't have enough to do. So in those cases, I might, you know, start with a smaller project and then that relationship could last, and then you know, a little while later, it makes sense for me to come in as a fractional CMO, but it's kind of like a 50-50. It just depends. But I really have a pretty rigorous vetting process myself, because I want to make sure that it's the right fit for what my process and what I do with my playbook and how I help the companies and that they're at the right place for me to come in and help them.
Eric Dickmann:I think that's so important what you said, because especially when you're a smaller business, right? Leads are gold, right? Leads are so important, but sometimes you've got to do the right thing and you've got. Hey, I, I'm not what you need right now. You may be just need a freelancer to create a logo or something, or maybe you need a full service agency because you just want to go through and create a whole bunch of stuff all at once. And it's finding the right place to enter a company because it's to everybody's benefit if it can be a valuable engagement from day one.
Amanda Rabideau:Couldn't agree more. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Eric Dickmann:Well, you talked a little bit about your process and so over time, I'm sure you've developed and refined that process. At a high level, can you share sort of some of the things that you do as part of that process or some of the deliverables from it?
Amanda Rabideau:Happy to. Well the first thing I do when I start with a Fractional CMO client is put together a marketing plan. You know, it's the proverbial if you're driving cross country, you don't just get in your car and hope that you arrive in the right location, right? You need to have a plan for how to get there, you know? And plus to me, t starts to build that relationship. And going back to your comment about, you need to build trust where when I put that plan together and I'm sharing the process and taking them through, like, this is why the plan is the way it is and here's what went into it, and what did I get out of the voice of client and all the different pieces that go into it, it does start to build that relationship. Then once the plan's done, it aligns both myself and typically the CEO and the board if they've got involved in approving it to say, okay, this is going to be accomplishing over the next six, 12 months or whatever the timeframe may be, then it, and I'll say easier and air quotes. I got to figure out which way I got to go easier and air quotes, for to go ahead and do my job, because one of the reasons that CEOs typically want a fractional CMO and not a lower level marketer is because of the autonomy, the ability to get things done, to make decisions and to take things off of his or her plate as a CEO. And so once that plan's been approved, the same way I would as a CMO of another company, I'd be executing against it. You know, reporting on the results, tracking on the budget, all of the things necessary to get that done. And typically in those first few months, what a startup company needs at post series a, they need a refresh on or for the first time, you know, a proper messaging framework. So getting really clear on the story, we need to start building out a content library that aligns to the buyer's journey. There probably needs to be some updates to their digital properties, maybe entire overhaul, but oftentimes we can just update those digital properties and then just start thinking about building out a full-time team. And so those are typically some of those first things that I'm doing when I'm coming in. And so I like to say, I like to get that foundation set that we can then build and grow from there.
Eric Dickmann:I love the way you put the focus on the plan and the strategy, because I don't know about you, but what I've seen with so many businesses is that they're just randomly doing things that aren't really connected to a or a strategy.
Amanda Rabideau:Yep.
Eric Dickmann:And let's face it, marketing is a cost center, right? Marketing is an expense and it can add up very quickly, especially if you're buying advertising or doing something like that. And if you don't really know what you're trying to accomplish or how to measure it, or are how all your various marketing objectives are tied together, you can waste a lot of money quickly and be pretty disappointed with the results.
Amanda Rabideau:Yep, exactly. And I mean in that strategy, there's an opportunity to educate the other executives. So sure, there are some founders that they have some marketing background or they understand it, or this isn't their first startup so they get it. You know, a lot of times the CEO could have been an engineering, you know, an, excuse me, an engineer, have an engineering background or something that isn't necessarily aligned marketing. So there can be some education and letting them know, Hey, this is why this is going to work. And this is why, what you have been doing the proverbial, you know, throwing it against the wall, seeing what sticks, why it wasn't effective. It doesn't mean marketing isn't effective, it just may mean that those tactics you were using weren't the right ones. Whether it be the message that was included or the channel that you were using, or you were trying to go after this audience, and that's not where they are. You know, all sorts of different things. So I try and do some education too, because we can't assume that everyone knows marketing like we know marketing.
Eric Dickmann:Well, and that sort of is a great segue to a question about what do people ask when they engage with you? Is it that we're at the stage of growth now where we know we need marketing. We don't have any in place right now. So we really need a plan. Is it we've been doing some marketing, but it's not working. What is a typical sort of a pain point that somebody calls you up on the phone, sends you an email and say- Hey, I need help with blank.
Amanda Rabideau:It's such a great question, cause I actually ask almost that exact question when I'm with a potential client, which is which one of these best describes you? Because if it's, they've already like- Hey, I just want a bunch of leads then I'm probably not that person or they might not be in the right stage, but where my clients typically are it's kind of like- Oh shit, we just got all this funding and we have no idea where these clients are coming from, help. You know, or like we don't have a lot of leads. And so you know, I'm really there to help them drive revenue and acquire new customers. That's typically what's needed at that post series A. And so when they're asking me questions, you know, it's around, you know, these are my goals, this is the revenue target or this competitor is eating my lunch. Like how do I get out from behind that company? And, you know, start chipping away at the marketplace. There's a whole host of things that these companies need to do, but typically it comes down to client acquisition and and driving awareness around the company. You know, towards the call, like the middle or the end of my engagement, when we're starting to think about that next round of fundraising, some of our focus does shift away cause hopefully at that point, we've got a little bit of the marketing machine up and running and building, you know, built out where we're starting to see the outputs of the work we've done. And now it's time to say, okay, how do we start positioning the company in the minds of potential investors? And then that becomes a different exercise and a different end goal, which is to get the funding for the next round.
Eric Dickmann:And do you look at these companies and that they have locked themselves into a particular strategy? What I mean by that is do they say we need some sort of a Fractional CMO? Do they say we need a full-time hire? Are they considering a full service agency? Have they sort of settled on one camp or the other or in your experience has been, they're looking at a broad, a wide variety of options?
Amanda Rabideau:I think that they're looking at a wide variety of options, which is why I often get the like, well, what's different about you than. an agency or why shouldn't I get a full-time CMO right now? And I think that that's part of that education, you know? They're looking to understand, do I need you or not need you? And, you know, I don't want to work for a company that doesn't need me any more than they don't want to be, you know, bringing someone on that they don't need as well. So I do really try and get into, you know, the details and like have multiple meetings with these clients, make sure that we are on the same page with what is it that I'm going to come in and do and how is that different than if you did bring in a full service agency or if you did bring in someone full-time and everything in between and all the other options. So yeah, I think typically they're exploring and they're trying to understand what's best for their business to help them achieve their growth targets.
Eric Dickmann:So because we believe in marketing, we want to make sure we get a chance to do some of it here on this show today. So if somebody is listening to this program and say, I'm considering getting a Fractional CMO, what do you say is your ideal client?
Amanda Rabideau:Well, say post series a funding, or like you just closed your series A, you're a B2B tech company, where you're located doesn't matter to me. I don't think it, you know, in today's world, I'm working with people all over the globe. So you know location is you know, pretty much inconsequential. And while I do have a deep background in prop tech or insuretech, meaning like property and casualty PNC insurance, and the whole property ecosystem, you know, I'm really open to clients that are also making an impact in a positive way on the climate and sustainability. And so, um, if you're a B2B post series A Funded tech company, out to me, happy to have a conversation, and see if it's a good fit and we're aligned on what you need and how can I help you.
Eric Dickmann:That's perfect. I think that's a great description. Amanda, tell everybody where they can find out more about you and more about the Arch Collective on the web.
Amanda Rabideau:Sure. my website is arch-collective.com. And of course I'm on all the social media channels as well, but you can find a lot of my content on LinkedIn and then you can catch me doing some fun content and reels on Instagram as well at Arch Collective Marketing is where you can find me on Instagram and then just search Arch Collective on LinkedIn, and you'll find me there as well.
Eric Dickmann:That's perfect. We'll make sure that we have all that linked up in the show notes so that people can find you, Amanda, this has been a great discussion. I love talking about the benefits of being a Fractional CMO and how they can really benefit businesses out there. so glad you could come on the show today. Thank you so much for your time.
Amanda Rabideau:Thanks for having me, Eric. I appreciate it.
Eric Dickmann:Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Virtual CMO podcast. For more episodes, go to fiveechelon.com/podcast to subscribe through your podcast player of choice. And if you'd like to develop consistent lead flow and a highly effective marketing strategy, visit fiveechelon.com to learn more about our Virtual CMO consulting services.
