The Power of Brand Storytelling to Grow Your Business with Gabrielle Dolan

In episode 98, host Eric Dickmann interviews Gabrielle Dolan. Gabrielle is a business consultant and storyteller, speaker, and Founder of Jargon Free Fridays. Since 2004, she has been teaching people around the world the power of sharing personal stories in business. 

Gabrielle holds a Master's Degree in Management and Leadership from Swinburne University and graduated from the Harvard Kennedy School of Executive Education in both the Art and Practice of Leadership Development and Women and Power: Leadership in a New World. 

Gabrielle has authored multiple award-winning books such as- “Real Communication: How to be You and Lead True,” “Stories for Work: The Essential Guide to Business Storytelling,” “Storytelling for Job Interviews,” “Ignite: Real Leadership, Real Talk, Real Results,” and “Hooked: How Leaders Connect, Engage and Inspire with Storytelling.” Her new book “Magnetic Stories” walks through how businesses can develop and communicate their own brand stories by focusing on five types of stories to connect and engage people with their brand.

For more information and access to the resources mentioned in this episode, visit: https://fiveechelon.com/the-power-brand-storytelling-grow-business-s6ep17/

A fractional CMO can help build out a comprehensive marketing strategy and execute targeted campaigns designed to increase awareness and generate demand for your business...without the expense of a full-time hire.

The Five Echelon Group - Fractional CMO and strategic marketing advisory services designed for SMBs looking to grow. Learn more at: 

https://fiveechelon.com

Transcript

Eric Dickmann: 0:31

Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast. I'm your host, Eric Dickmann. In this podcast, we have conversations with marketing professionals who share the strategies, tactics, and mindset you can use to improve the effectiveness of your marketing activities and grow your business. Gabrielle, welcome to The Virtual CMO Podcast. So glad you could join us today.

Gabrielle Dolan: 0:53

Thanks, Eric. It's really good to be here with you.

Eric Dickmann: 0:55

I've had so many fantastic guests from down under. I don't know what it is. It seems like, you know, New York, I thought would be the hotspot for a lot of marketing related guests, but it turns out that it's Australia.

Gabrielle Dolan: 1:07

Yeah. I think, I think down under maybe we have to be really good at marketing to be seen and heard, being so far away from everyone else.

Eric Dickmann: 1:14

Maybe that's it. Whatever is it, it's working. And I'm delighted to have you on the show today because we're going to get to talk about one of my favorite topics which is all around storytelling and specifically around brand stories. Why do you think this is so hard for companies to get this right?

Gabrielle Dolan: 1:31

I think it is hard for them to get it right. I think there's a couple of things and it was probably one of the couple of the reasons I wrote the book is fundamentally, I'm not sure people know what a stories. So what I would see is companies saying this is our brand story, and I would look at it and go, so, which part of that is a story would you say? You know that they mistake, for example, a timeline is not a story. I think the other thing they think, it's one story. So you just can't communicate your entire brand with one story. So I think they actually confuse brand story as I I've heard people say, you know, brand stories out, we've got a slick corporate video or it's our narrative, or it's our logo, or it's our tagline. That's not a brand story. So I think it's the fundamental understanding of what it actually is or are brand stories.

Eric Dickmann: 2:25

When I see so many businesses, you know, they say our product or service, it speaks for itself. It's so good. You know, people know what it is. I don't need to tell a story about it. Look at the features that it has.

Gabrielle Dolan: 2:36

Oh, yeah. Well, I think the brand stories about the product and features what they have, but it doesn't matter how good your product is or your service is, if people don't know about it, then they won't even get to experience it for a start.

Eric Dickmann: 2:50

Yeah. I live here in Orlando, Florida, so we're very familiar with storytelling here. We've got the big theme parks and there are a lot of places around town that seemed to have integrated stories into their brands, establishments. There's always a little element of entertainment in a lot of things that happen around here. And obviously it works if you look at the power of a company like the Walt Disney company or Universal and what they've been able to do. It's all about stories.

Gabrielle Dolan: 3:22

Yeah. And the Disney company use stories well internally. So for people that come and work for Disney, their whole onboarding process is a story field. They're hearing stories about the history, they're hearing stories about why we did this type of thing, and then learning stories, especially the customer facing employees, they're hearing the stories which they can then tell to customers. So, So you would imagine Disney do storytelling well.

Eric Dickmann: 3:55

How do you separate this idea of a brand story just from a brand's history? I think sometimes people think, well, this is the story of our founder or this is the story of how we came into existence, two companies merging together or whatever the case may be. But it's not always a historical context, right?

Gabrielle Dolan: 4:14

No. You know Eric, when you said where do companies go wrong? I think one of the reasons they go wrong is they just relay the history and they think by telling the history, it's the story. The problem with that is the history tends to be filled with a lot of dates and facts, and you know, in 1972, this company and this company merged to become this company. And it's a little bit boring actually, because we're not engaged in that, But there's a lot of companies that have a strong history that can still tell their story, so they can tell the story of the founder. But it's a real story about why did they start the company. And so I call those creation stories about why the company started, but it can also be why the product started. And that's another thing too. So not only when did we release this product or when did we merge with a company, but why did we? Why did we start the company? Why did we merge? Why did we release that product? Because there's always stories behind them and they're more engaging and people connect with them more than just when we did it.

Eric Dickmann: 5:29

So you've written this book which you sent me a copy, which is amazing by the way. I think it's so useful in the way that it's even laid out, it's a very actionable and very digestible. You call it Magnetic Stories. And for the audience who hasn't had a chance to read the book yet, what are the elements of a magnetic story?

Gabrielle Dolan: 5:49

Maybe ironically, maybe I'll share a story about why I called it Magnetic Stories.

Eric Dickmann: 5:54

Yeah, that's great.

Gabrielle Dolan: 5:57

You know whenever you write a book, Eric, it's like, I have a working title in my head and it never really ends up being the actual title. Because you know, ironically the publishers, the marketing people in the publishing, my publishers wildly get behind it and suggest other names. And you go, oh yeah, that's better. But this one actually, the name did come from me and I was actually thinking I needed a term that describes, because the power of a story, the power of a really good brand story is that you can have this instant connection to it, like an instant, automatic attraction, like bang! That once you've heard that story, it's like really hard to pull away from, it's really hard to forget that story. And that's almost the concept of brand loyalty too. Once you have an attraction, you sort of don't even pull away from it. So I was trying to think what like that? And then magnet came to my head where, you know, like a magnet, you pull to make this together. They just go bang together. And they're very, very, very hard to put. You've almost got to force yourself to pull them apart. And that's the power of a really good story. It's a funny, side comment is my husband was also thinking of a story of a title for the book, and he came out one day and he goes, I've been thinking, and I reckon I've got the perfect title for your book. And I went, what? And he went, Teflon stories. And I went that is like the complete opposite of what. Do you know Teflon slips off? I guess that's the complete opposite of what I want. He went- Oh yeah, good point. Stick with magnetic.

Eric Dickmann: 7:35

So he gave him a copy of the book for Christmas and like, Ah, yeah.

Gabrielle Dolan: 7:38

He read this.

Eric Dickmann: 7:40

Well no, go ahead. Keep going.

Gabrielle Dolan: 7:42

I was going to say, so that's the concept of braind stories in the book is finding these stories that people can attract to the brand, connect with the brand. Oh, yeah, I'll share a little example of one of the stories in the book, because it's probably one of my favorite, and I think it really highlights the power of what a really good brand story can do. When I was growing up, Eric, I was a bit of a tomboy. I'd spend most of my time playing football or cricket or riding my BMX bike, or skateboard. That's what I did, and I wasn't really into dolls. And so I never had a Barbie. And over the last few decades, when Barbie has got a bit of a bad name as being a bad role model for girls, you know, unattainable body image, I happily went along with that story. I've got two daughters who are now 17 and 20, and I never bought them a Barbie and I might've even been so strong against it that I told people not to buy them a Barbie, which is quite ridiculous. But anyway, I did it. When I was researching for the book, I came across the backstory to Barbie. And Barbie was invented by Ruth Handler, who was the wife of one of the co-founders of Mattel, which made the Barbie product. And what she noticed in the fifties, when her two children, she had a a son and a daughter called Ken and Barbara, and yes, Ken and Barbie are named after her children. But what she noticed is when they were playing with their respective dolls both of them imagined themselves as adults, but whilst Ken could imagine he was encouraged to imagine himself as an astronaut or a firefighter or a superhero. Barbie could only ever imagine herself as a caregiver, that was the dolls. So she suggested this idea of a 3D doll with fabric clothing, so the little girl could pretend to be someone else and imagine herself as someone else besides the caregiver. And initially, they didn't agree with it, but she persisted. And in 1959, on the 9th of March, and I remember that day because it's my birthday, not the 1959, 9th. Barbie debuted at the New York Toy Fair, and you know, the rest is history clearly. But there's a quote from Ruth Handler that says- My whole philosophy with Barbie was that through the doll, the little girl had choices that Barbie always represented that women could be whatever they wanted to be. And when I heard that story and read that quote, it completely changed my perception of the Barbie brand and not only completely changed my perception, more importantly will influence my future buying habits. So I never bought my girls Barbie doll, but I might just buy Barbie dolls for any future grandchildren that come along. And again, one of the reasons I wrote the book, such a missed opportunity, that, that story I had to really research and find that story. That story is not front and center on their website, and that story is not on every single Barbie packaging because that is a magnetic story. And when people read the book, the most feedback I get as an author, I would hope I get feedback about how great the book is, which I do. But the first initial feedback people give me is I have completely changed my opinion of Barbie. That's that's the biggest feedback I get from them reading the book and that story.

Eric Dickmann: 11:16

That's so interesting because even as you're telling it here, you know, I'm sort of glued and listening to it and where's this going? And you know, what's the outcome of this? And it's amazing when you say it like you did, when you frame it as a story, we can sort of put ourselves in those characters or in those people's lives and sort of see how this might've played out and at a certain point in time. And it's just amazing how much more effectively that communicates what that doll really represented than as you say, what was on the packaging or our perceptions of what it has been over the years.

Gabrielle Dolan: 11:53

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the power of story, whether they brand stories or with the, you know. I do a lot of work working with companies to help them communicate internally their strategy and their values. But if leaders are sharing personal stories or sharing stories, that's the power of story. As humans, we are hardwired to communicate through stories. We are hardwired to share stories, we had wired to listen to stories. It's the way we communicate. But in business, we communicate with facts and figures, and bullet points, and product features, and it's boring. It's just the wrong way to communicate to humans.

Eric Dickmann: 12:33

I'm a huge Apple fan, I love all Apple technology and always have. And about once a year or so, I go back to YouTube and I replay the video of Steve Jobs introducing the iPhone for the first time. And you know, it's a business school case study, right? And in storytelling in really defining a problem and talking about how this product is being introduced to solve a specific problem. And the way that he does it is so masterfully and you can just see that the audience is on the edge of their seats as this is unfolding and wondering what this thing is going to be. Even though there were rumors about what was going to be released ahead of time. And I just love that. And it's interesting to me, how many companies have a hard time duplicating that. Some try, but it seems to be very difficult for many companies to really frame a problem. Do you think a conflict is necessary as part of an element of a story that you have to have something that you're resolving?

Gabrielle Dolan: 13:37

No, not necessarily. And so I know like a whole concept of a story is like the hero's journey, where you know, there's something's happened and we've overcome it. And while that actually does make for a good story when you overcome obstacles. I'm sort of saying yes and no because it doesn't have to be a really big obstacle or challenge. It could just even be, sometimes when people share a story and just share the self-doubt they had in themselves, like even that, that can be a challenge to overcome. So I guess my answer is yes, but don't think of the challenge that has got to be this big, major thing that you've got to overcome. It just could be an element of self doubt. I love the fact that you brought I'm a fan of Steve Jobs, he was a sensational storyteller. In fact, there's a quote that I often do. It's Steve Jobs and he says the most powerful person in the world is the storyteller. The storyteller sets the vision, values, and agenda of an entire generation that is to come. I think that's why he was such a great CEO or leader of Apple is because he was a storyteller and through his stories, he sets the vision and the agenda for the entire organization, but also for generations to come. And also with Apple, I often use apple as an example. People buy on emotion, so what story does, story taps into emotion. We connect with stories on an emotional level and just have you said, do you know if you overcome a challenge. we relate to that and we've all done that thing. So stories tap into emotion and that's why they're so powerful, and that's why we connect with it. And the reality is people buy on emotion, they don't buy on logic. You know anyone in traditional sales roles or marketing roles know this, they will tell you people buy on emotion and rationalize through logic and justify through logic, and because all you'd have to look at. When Apple release a new product and people aligned out overnight stretching around the corner to buy the product when they could literally buy it online, That is an emotion, there is nothing logical about that. They're buying on emotion. And so that's what stories do, stories tap into emotion.

Eric Dickmann: 16:03

Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to the podcast. But first, are you ready to grow, scale, and take your marketing to the next level? If so, The Five Echelon Group's Virtual CMO consulting service may be a great fit for you. We can help build a strategic marketing plan for your business and manage its execution, step-by-step. We'll focus on areas like how to attract more leads. How to create compelling messaging that resonates with your ideal customers. How to strategically package and position your products and services. How to increase lead conversion, improve your margins, and scale your business. To find out more about our consulting offerings and schedule a consultation, go to fiveechelon.com and click on Services. Now back to the podcast. I love that you read that quote. And you know sometimes as a podcast host, I'm reluctant to use Apple as an example because it's overused, but it's not overused. They have become the most valuable company in the world, right? So obviously they're doing something, right? Yeah.

Gabrielle Dolan: 17:09

They're overused a reason, right? And I see a lot of people go, I know, Apple's overused, but it's overused for a reason because they're bloody good at what they do.

Eric Dickmann: 17:17

They do, yeah. And they continued to do that maybe not with the same flare that Steve Jobs had, but they still have those elements of story in just about everything that they do. You know, one of the things that I've noticed, and they've been complimented on is during COVID, they could no longer do their live events so they went to prerecorded video events. But they were some of the most spectacular recorded video events I've seen for a business purpose. They had very high production values and they told a story. They really walk people through. And so yeah, they're firm believers in the power of story. And I told you before the show that one of the examples that you had in the book, it hits close to home, it's located here in Tampa, it's a restaurant called Columbia. And one of the things that I thought was interesting in your reference to Columbia is yes, there's a story for the restaurant itself. There's some history, they are in a historical neighborhood, in a historical building. But it's just the little ways they bring that story into something as simple as a menu item. Could you share with the audience that?

Gabrielle Dolan: 18:18

Yeah, and I loved writing this book because I got to speak to so many different companies from around the world that were doing such cool things with storytelling, and Columbia restaurants is a great example of. And again, when we talk about the brand story, it's not the narrative. I sort of almost vomit a bit when I hear the word narrative, because it's like, it's our narrative. And so what we're trying to do is create one story that sort of explains the whole sort of company or brand, which you know, which is I guess it's sort of is the narrative. But to me, a narrative is all the little stories you can share about everything. So you know Columbia restaurant, they've got a big chandelier in their restaurant, and there's a story behind that. There's a fountain out the front and there's a story behind that, like why that, where it came from, why they got it. When I interviewed Columbia restaurant so I should say I was alerted to Columbia restaurant in Florida by a friend of mine who went there and sent me a photo of their menu because on the menu, they have little micro stories, just like little mini stories about you know, it could be a dish and this was, you know, cause it's a fifth generational company. It's the oldest restaurant in Florida actually. So little stories on their menu, stories on their wine. If you go to their website, it's like just story after story. It's a little bit of a Netflix movie. It's I've never read an About Us section on a website and wanted to know more, that's their use of stories. When I contacted them and interviewed for them. I spoke to the marketing comms person there, and the first question I asked them was when did they get involved in storytelling? Like when did they realize the power of stories? And I was sort of Eric, I was sort of expecting them to say, 10 years ago or something. 1942.

Eric Dickmann: 20:17

Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

Gabrielle Dolan: 20:19

So what they did is they hired a journalist that would come and sit at the bar, at the Columbia restaurants, and write stories. Like write stories about the bar man that had been there for 20 years and write stories about customers that have been coming for 20 years. And they just wrote stories about characters or wrote stories about the chandelier, or the beautiful mosaic artwork they had, but it was always the story. And they said yes and it would be published in newspapers. So yes it was sort of advertising, but it never felt like advertising because it was always done in a story. And they're just using stories amazingly. He They talked about when people come onboarding for people that work with them, they hear all these stories. So they hear the stories about the chandelier and their whole onboarding program is just story after story after story, because then the customer facing staff though, waiters and bar people, and stuff can share those stories with the customers. And what they've realized that when a story's behind everything, I think one of the things they talk about is it's just not, you're not coming here to eat, you're coming here for an experience, and I actually call it the Columbia experience. So it's the stories that are simple, going out for dinner, turns into a dining experience as opposed to just eating.

Eric Dickmann: 21:44

Well, that was one of the things you talk about in the book as well as the importance of really pulling employees into the story, right? It can't just be something that lives in the About Us section of the website.

Gabrielle Dolan: 21:56

No, and that's another thing. It's like don't. I mean yeah, put it in the About Us section and it might be interesting, but there's very few people reading these stories. And being really creative with where you put the stories. Like you know, Columbia did it one there wine menus and stuff like that. I think their wine menu is about 240 pages long. It's because there's stories about all the vineyards they use. So it's using how you share those stories both internally and externally, so both to your employees and to your customers. And I think through social media, those channels emerging that a lot of companies are sharing things directly. Like let's say for example, directly on LinkedIn or Facebook. And so by default, they're communicating to both their customers and employees. So just get really creative. I interviewed another company, this is a Melbourne based company, another family owned bakery, and they shared little mini stories on coffee cups and you know, things like that, and just having fun with the way they shared stories. I think one of those little micro stories they use was in 19 whatever, their main bakehouse burnt down. And they just had things like, a thousand pies lost their lives, and so they just make it you know, literally funny. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Dickmann: 23:16

Well, you know, you mentioned Facebook, social media, one of the sections that you have in your book talks about the changing trends. I think you are list four trends that are really changing. As people build out these magnetic stories. Can you talk to those a little bit and how things are really starting to change as brands start to work on building these stories? What do they have to be aware of with all this noise out in the marketplace right now?

Gabrielle Dolan: 23:42

Yeah. look at entities. So first of all, there's a lot of noise, that's information overload. That's not a trend that's been around for a very long time, but it's still here and it's not going away, it's getting worse. What's happening is more and more employees are working for companies that are aligned to their values. So it's been clear on what your brand stands for. And to me, a brand is the values of your company. It's not the products, it's not the products. It's the values. It's the culture of how we do this. So employees more and more are looking to work for companies that they're proud to work for. So you want to be able to be communicating the values at your companies. Customers are more making products or choice of the products. Based on again, the values of the company. I think the younger generation are driving that, I mentioned before. I've got two daughters, 17 and 20. And. It's actually sometimes quite painful to go shopping with them, because I will pick something up and they go- Mum, do you know that that company has slave labor, whatever? Or do you know that their company, you should be buying this company because they're sustainable and they donate money to. And they know all this and I was like- Oh, okay.. And it was like, so more and more employees are making really informed choices around that. The other trend is the way we communicate social media is in the way we can communicate internally and externally is changing. So how we use stories to sort of cut through all the noise on social media. And also the other one that is quite recent, this cancel culture, which I never really heard of a couple of years ago, but this, this power of, a story can get out there and people can just, I mean, it's sort of you know, it goes with celebrities, but it goes with companies. We go, we're refusing to buy from you based on something. And it could be a story out there that is true by the way, but it's it's how do you change that and how do you then proactively put the positive stories out there? So, I'm not talking about marketing spin or anything, but, you know, if a company has stuffed up and done the wrong thing or a celebrity, or whatever, then how do you sort of proactively acknowledge that? But then you know talk about the positive things that are happening because of it?

Eric Dickmann: 26:13

Well, I love it. because what you're really getting at is authenticity, right? You can't create a story around your brand, you can't make up some values that your brand stands for. You know, if you're not an environmentally friendly brand, you can greenwash over that. You know, that's a term that's come up. You have to be authentic. And it sounds like what you're really saying is that these trends really are in support of that is that you have to stand for something, you have to put that story out there, you have to be true to it, and then you have to be aware of what's being said about you.

Gabrielle Dolan: 26:48

Yeah, absolutely. And to me it all comes back to authenticity. You can't fake this stuff. It's been clear on your brand and that's whether you're an individual or a company, we all have brands. Every single one of us have brands. My favorite definition of a brand comes from Jeff Bezos, where he that your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. My variation on that, my little tweak on that is it's the stories people share about you when you're not in the room, because ultimately people will tell stories. So, you know if I spoke to someone and said, Hey, what do you, Eric's asked me to come on his podcast? What's he like. They might go, yeah, he's good or bad. But they'll ultimately, if I push they'll tell me your story about your hair went on and he did this, and then he did this. And, and so it's the stories people share about you. So you need to take control of that. You need to take, be aware of that, but it stems down to authenticity. You can't pretend, you know, well, you can pretend, but people are going to see through it. And companies can't be sharing, like you said, can't be sharing stories about how you know, they're doing all these great things in the environment, but actually doing something different. So people, I think that's when we're real cancel culture will come in, if you sort of get caught out.

Eric Dickmann: 28:07

I agree with you completely. And as I said, I really enjoyed reading the book, and you know, it's an actionable book, you know, when you've got book mark flaps on both the front and the back covers, right? Because clearly there are sections of this book that you want to like set aside and come back to.

Gabrielle Dolan: 28:23

I have should have done it like a cookbook where you've got little ribbons.

Eric Dickmann: 28:28

Oh, you're right. That You could pull it out and mark the sections. No, I'd highly encourage people to take a look at the book. And so as we sort of wrap up the podcast here today, I'd love it if you could just tell people more about the book where they can find it and where they can connect with you online.

Gabrielle Dolan: 28:43

Yeah. So the book, Magnetic Stories, it's an old book school Googled bookstores. There's probably some crap books there as well. But you can get it from all the usual, you know, Amazon, you know, online. It's online, it's an e-version, it's an audible version as well. Um, it's not me talking the audible version. But you can get it from all your bookstores. If you're interested in storytelling, either for you and how you go about you know, implementing it in your company. The best thing is go to my website, gabrielledolan.com. There's a seven day storytelling starter kit, so it's free. And that sort of is what it is. It will get you started on storytelling and how to think about it. But also on the website, you can download a free section of the book to see if it's something you'd be interested in.

Eric Dickmann: 29:31

That's awesome. What book number is it for you? You've written other books as well. How many have you written so far?

Gabrielle Dolan: 29:36

This is my sixth book. sixth published book, which is quite astounding because if someone had told me I would have written one book, I wouldn't have believed them. My final teacher in final year of school English, I actually failed English. I wasn't a pretty good stodent and I failed English. So it just goes to show what good editors can do. But yeah, it's my sixth book. And they're all sort of on storytelling or authentic leadership, real communication.

Eric Dickmann: 30:11

Do you have a seventh one in you?

Gabrielle Dolan: 30:13

Yeah, I do.

Eric Dickmann: 30:15

You're hooked.

Gabrielle Dolan: 30:17

I've actually always got a couple of books on the go, but I sometimes secretly start writing them because I think I've got a book in my head and sometimes I get to like about 5,000 words and go, that's it I'm done. And I go, maybe that's just a couple of articles, that's not really a book.

Eric Dickmann: 30:36

Not a full book. Well, it's an accomplishment, and we'll definitely be looking forward to that one when it comes out. Gabrielle, thank you so much for being on the show today. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks, Eric. Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Virtual CMO podcast. For more episodes, go to fiveechelon.com/podcast to subscribe through your podcast player of choice. And if you'd like to develop consistent lead flow and a highly effective marketing strategy, visit fiveechelon.com to learn more about our Virtual CMO consulting services.